I have been asked to more completely define America’s policy on torture. The title of this post is the policy of the United States according to President Bush. So…how does this fit with waterboarding and destroyed tapes? How does our relatively torture-free past fit with the Guantanamo Bays and Abu Ghraibs of today? After 9/11, the Bush administration has approved various techniques that are described as “coercive interrogation.” These are supposed to somehow differ from torture. Here is a very good video that talks about this as well as showing an actual waterboarding.
The Bush Administration’s argument breaks down like this:
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We don’t torture.
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If we did torture, it wouldn’t matter, because the people we are holding are not American citizens, and therefore do not have rights.
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At the same time, they are not soldiers for any particular country, so the Geneva Conventions do not apply.
So…we are left with people who do not fall into any specific category so we can do whatever we want with them. I guess in order to be a good political philosopher I need to talk about what I think about it. This warrants a new paragraph.
The classic example used by whatever conservative is closest at the time in torture debates is “What if someone had the location of a nuclear bomb and you needed to get information out of him quickly and you were the President of the United States?” There is no right answer, seemingly. Do you want to sacrifice your ideals or millions of lives. Unfortunately for those who are trigger-happy on the hypotheticals, this situation degrades pretty easily when the facts are examined. Well, one fact really. Torture doesn’t work. It doesn’t make people give true information. It makes people say anything to make it stop, which may be the truth, but may be just the first thing that pops into their heads. So would I torture someone in order to stop a terrorist attack of nuclear proportions? No, because it would waste valuable time and resources on a probable wild goose chase. This of course dodges the more general question: would you trample the Constitution if you thought it would save lives? And while I don’t think this is a question anyone can truly answer unless they are in the situation, my judgment right now is that I would not. Feel free to tell me I am a heartless human being, this is by no means a one-sided issue. But if you are to put yourself in the shoes of the President of the United States, you have to think foremost about the safety of the nation and its Constitution. Horrible as this sounds, this nation can withstand the deaths of a million people much more easily than it can stand a precedent of disregarding human rights.
As for how the government has covered this up, there is no excuse. Obviously there are times when national security is more important than keeping the American people fully informed, but these times do not extend to when the Executive Branch is doing something that many would consider illegal. The problem is, there is no way to create a set of rules to determine what can be revealed and what can’t. A lot of the time, we have to rely on our president and our Executive Branch to be responsible. When we elect a president that is not responsible, we are more or less screwed. This is why in addition to views on issues, we should be looking at how our candidates view presidential power. The election process is the only input by the electorate that is sure to have an effect. Be educated and vote for someone who you trust to protect our country and its Constitution.
December 24, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Yes, my Christmas Eve post is all about torture. Deal with it.
December 24, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Unfortunately, I think this nation is on a rather luxurious decent into some genetically re-engineered form of fascism. Robert Paxton paints a rather grim picture of what happens when democracies historically start to turn around edges in The Anatomy of Fascism, so we would certainly be wise to pay close attention to what Henry Giroux has to say on the subject in Against the New Authoritarianism: Politics After Abu Ghraib. When thugs in power can successfully convince marginally attentive citizens that torture is what’s needed to keep them safe, there’s no place left to go after that. Instant enemies; just add water. All that’s required to make the whole thing thrive is a corporatized media with a financial dog in the hunt.
December 28, 2007 at 12:36 am
Wow cbzzz sounds like a real left wing nut job, but unfortunately she might be right. In the law field they say hard facts make bad law, and this is precisely the problem with all the torture hypotheticals. That’s why we make these rules in the cold light of day (or we should), so that in the heat of the moment, hopefully folks facing the hard facts will at least try to follow the rules (i.e. there will be rules), and understand that there will be consequences if they don’t. If there is no accountability and no clear rule, it is a slippery slope, and you end up possibly at genetically re-engineered fascism(?!). Look, maybe it’s worth it to torture someone to find out the location of the nuke that will kill 10M, but that doesn’t mean we should make it OK to torture from the get go. I’m against the death penalty and I’m against murder — but if someone killed a loved one I might knock him off and deal with the consequences. By the Bush administration’s logic I should advocate for legalized vigilante murder (or move to Texas).
I watched that water boarding video and there is no question in my mind that this is torture. Trying to define around it is a chicken-s manuever. One line from that vid — one thing I agree with McCain on — is the idea that torture isn’t about who “they” are (i.e. whether we should torture non-citizens, “terrorists”, minorities, the politically unpopular, or other gov’t designated “baddies”), it’s about who WE are. There is no question that investigations are less efficient when we have to follow all these rules about self incrimination (the ultimate no-torture rule from our founding fathers) search and siezure, and so on, but that is what defines us as a nation. We just have to work harder to get the baddies I guess.
Is there anyone who will come out in favor of torture, to liven the discussion? Smitty? Isn’t there a libertarian argument in favor of torture, like if it’s privatized, with vouchers or something?
December 28, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Well played, I got a chuckle.
Unfortunately, I haven’t much more than a complete agreement with those who have already posted comments here. Fear not, if nothing else, I’ll just argue the other side for the sake of debate on issues of…shall we say…issues that have more legitimate debate from both sides? I really see no arguement points from those who think torture is effective, legal, or otherwise.
December 28, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Sam Harris explored, in a very logical (and disturbing) fashion, the sacrifice of the one for the good of the many in his controversial The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason. Even he was uncomfortable with where he landed when confronted following that rabbit down the hole using only a purely reasoned and rational approach.
The fact is that the hypocrisy of warfare really bumps up against the torture issue in very challenging ways, ways that render even the most hawkish and the most dovish without legitimate defense.
Can we get an Edit button or does that cost $$?
November 12, 2008 at 3:34 pm
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